The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

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Renegadenemo
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Renegadenemo » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:10 am

How did he manage that in the first place? Slammed the wheel brakes on? Fell down the hill? It's an uncommon sort of an accident...
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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Voltaire's apology when he wrote a long letter: "I didn't have time to make it shorter."

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Richie
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Richie » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:48 am

During the war they reckon it was common place with new pilots onto spitfires and P51's as the prop was so big... throttling up too quickly creates the same issue (so I am told) I can see how doing so would make that happen that's for sure.

I know when landing especially on grass runways the pilots had to three point it or risk a prop.
Clarence come out ov zat tank at vonz !

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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:14 am

Even when the aircraft is static, the wash from the propeller can cause sufficient lift at the tailplane to raise the rear end of the aircraft right up, so application of throttle becomes a key issue.

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Speedfab
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Speedfab » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:06 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:10 am
How did he manage that in the first place? Slammed the wheel brakes on? Fell down the hill? It's an uncommon sort of an accident...
Taildragger 101, first lesson of the first day: Taxiing and beginning your takeoff roll, have the stick in your lap, IE: full up elevator so that the prop wash puts some downforce on the tail feathers and keeps the CG behind the main gear as God, Wilbur, and Orville intended. Also makes it easier for your feet to do the rudder dance when all those fun p-factor and gyroscopic precession effects start their shenanigans around the whirly thing at the front.

Looking at that one closer angle video, elevators appear flat until the poo is already rapidly approaching the fan, and he kicked some rudder way too late as well. All those narrow main gear planes that retract the wheels outward like Spitfires and ME109s apparently weren't the easiest things to handle on the ground in the first place. Crying damn shame about that airframe.

Hey Bill, is that boat done yet? :lol:

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Renegadenemo
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Renegadenemo » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:46 pm

Crying damn shame about that airframe.

Hey Bill, is that boat done yet? :lol:
no doubt our old mate, Steve Vizard at Airframe Assemblies will have it licked back into shape in no time. They've mended much worse. What boat? :lol:
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes

Voltaire's apology when he wrote a long letter: "I didn't have time to make it shorter."

kneeslider
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by kneeslider » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:56 am

Ouch. I bet that isn't going to be cheap to sort out.

It looks like a classic tailwheel gyroscopic prop issue. As I have said before, the more power you have, and the bigger the prop, the more airflow over the control surfaces you need to keep it all nicely balanced. Looks like the tail came up, and just kept on going.

While it is true that managing this is really page one, lesson one of operating a taildragger, it is also true that bad habits creep up, and you become used to doing things in a certain routine, but maybe going 1% faster with raising the tail, or 1% quicker between closed throttle and open, and then it bites very hard when you over step. Its unusual to end up upside down on the takeoff roll, most of the time the typical accident is a relatively harmless ground loop, with little or no damage because the rudder lacks authority at low airspeed, clearly if you have enough power, then you can overcome the elevator authority too. Worth bearing in mind, even if no one is likely to let me loose in a warbird any time soon.

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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:21 am

The only other accident of that type I've come across was Paul Morgan from Ilmor but I think he hit some soggy grass or a drainage ditch or something and he was killed.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes

Voltaire's apology when he wrote a long letter: "I didn't have time to make it shorter."

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Mike Bull
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Mike Bull » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:25 pm

Apparently the pilot only bruised a rib- very, very lucky considering that a broken neck is the more common result from Spitfires flipping over like this. The Me109 was even worse for it!

Black Knight
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Black Knight » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:07 pm

From head on the right gear hits either a pothole or & puddle & then looks like it's thrown up. From the other angle it just looks like too much power too soon.

It's a shame as it had only just had a brand new set of wings fitted, can't believe that state they were in. Looks like HFL will be busy again.

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Mike Bull
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Mike Bull » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:23 pm

Word now is that a 2-seater Spitfire has had a wheels up today at Sywell, pilot and passenger ok. :roll:

On a happier historic note, PA474 is looking and sounding very healthy and is almost ready to go after 8 months in the hands of ARCo at Duxford-

00a.jpg



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